熊宇和他的艺术试验

文：苌苌

12月18日，熊宇将在偏锋艺术空间举办个展《Angel in City》，展出的是他从去年至今，在将近一年的时间里创作的共18幅绘画作品。从2006年的首次个展《安静的流逝》，到2008年的《塔罗》，每次个展，都是熊宇对自我认识的一个梳理。生于1975年，尚在精神的成长期，熊宇的世界观和艺术观都在变化中逐渐成熟，三次个展的主题都和他当时对生活和艺术的体悟息息相关。那双大眼睛，不管喜欢与否，人们因此而记住创作者，无可否认成了熊宇作品的符号，但被市场接纳并不意味着，他的思考从此变得轻松。纵观下来，熊宇对绘画的探索是一个卸掉思想包袱的过程，从华腻到细腻，从厚重到素洁，从飘到沉。是怎么样的生活沉淀使他的画面产生这样的变化？在初冬的一天上午，在798的咖啡馆，他讲到了他绘画的感性的逻辑，以及不同的社会体验对他的艺术产生的影响。

关于符号
苌苌：对于大眼睛，你最初是怎么设想的？
熊宇：那时候就想创造一个纯粹的人，他们不是男人也不是女人，处在不同的状态下，能够安静的思考，可以享受自己比较私密的空间。我当时画画有两种感受：一种感受就是希望画面上的人，有种发自生命的力量，我喜欢夸大一个人的手，关节，我现在也喜欢这样。另外，就是我喜欢有眼神的交流，所以把眼睛画大，像是一个注视。瞳仁是蓝色的，是因为我觉得蓝色特别透，我希望他的眼睛带出的是透澈的感觉。你看过毕加索的《海滩上奔跑的两个女人》吗？
苌苌：是的，但那幅画最让我吃惊的是，最初我在画册上看到，觉得应该是张大画，但后来在毕加索美术馆看到原作，发现很小，也就一尺来宽的样子。
熊宇：我也曾经以为那张画很大，如果他把人体画成一个正常的样子，完全不会给人这种感觉，但就是他把形体夸大成那样，以致那种生命力，生活的喜悦之情都要从画面溢出来，可能才让你觉得一个小画布不足以容纳。但我想说的是，他把他感兴趣的东西给夸张出来，才透出了那样的感觉。
苌苌：但是最终你的画中的眼睛决定了是这样的一个样式——长睫毛，以前的一些画，会让我觉得脂粉气，这次好一些。我不知道你怎么想的？
熊宇：脂粉气？我倒不是特别觉得。我觉得这会让眼睛更清澈。就像我才说的，这个人物不确定是男的还是女的，但他是有生命力的，有清澈的眼睛和观众交流，呆在一个很安静的地方。但保持原形，绝对不是我的主要动机，所以他的眼神是在慢慢变化的，也不是总有长睫毛，我更注重画面整体的一个感觉，有的画到最后才决定是否要加上，包括你刚才提到的某个眼神里的忧郁，也不是我刻意追求的，但画画的那几天就是那样的感觉，可能和周围有关。

塔罗时代
苌苌：你的第二个展览是关于塔罗牌的，你是怎么认识塔罗的？
熊宇：最早是大家一起给我算命，楞说塔罗牌特别准。我上海的一个哥们，他是画二维漫画的，每天画几十张，几百张那种，画得特别累。他就爱玩这个，他就给我算，关于结婚，社会工作，反正都特别准，你就觉得那个东西挺神秘。他就给我看了很正宗的一套，我发觉这完全就是一套很完整的世界观体系，就挺想把它画出来的。05年我开始画，画了十几张，但是后来中断了。
苌苌：中间发生了什么？
熊宇：这是我一个挺大的教训。有的时候你创作的时候，你受到旁边的影响，不见得是好事。我当时就是做了十几张以后，我不记得我来北京干嘛了，回去以后，整个心态就变了。再回去看那个作品，觉得不对头，不是我想要的。
苌苌：发生什么事了？
熊宇：也不是发生什么事了，就是你会发现它传递出来的感受跟你原来想要的不一样，你会觉得它太简单了，太浅薄了，太绚丽了，这个时候就把它全部推翻了，全部重新做。一下你就发现工作量特别大，变成特别累的事情。再开始重新画塔罗，我吸取了以前的教训。中途，韩国一个展览的开幕邀请我去，我没去，后来环碧堂给我联系了在上海美术馆的个展，我又放弃了，我说作品还没弄完呢，别人觉得放掉这个机会挺可惜的。我觉得这其实是大家理解角度不同。我跟你说这些，就是说创作的时候，它是有一个持续状态的。你中间忙点别的事，再回来，那口气可能就接不上了。以前程丛林跟我聊过一次，他也遇到过这个问题。在德国的时候，他画送葬和迎亲的人群，一幅很大的画，中间卡塞尔文献展邀请他参加他也拒绝了，那幅画他画了几年，我后来就问他，你怎么可能几年画一张画，我说这个过程中心态会变，他说他确实后来变了，就是靠那种坚持把画画完了。我觉得画画就是这样，刚开始的时候你是天才，最后结束的时候你也是天才，但是中间画的过程就是执着，你有很长一段时间都是在基础上做，比如说往上涂颜料，涂一遍，涂两遍，其实那个时候根本就不是你想要的，你要慢慢去调，最后就会花很长的时间。但是你一旦在中间停下来，他就是一个制作的过程停在那里，根本就没有你自己灵感或者天分在里面，你会发现他一无是处，然后你前面的功夫就白废了。因为你的心态就变了，一个年轻人，每天都会被新的东西影响，可能一年以后你思想就会变化很多，但是你在做这个事情的时候，它是不能变的。你就得想，一定要自己投入这么多进去，你不管最后的结果怎么样，别人说好还是不好，这相当于是你要走完自己人生的一段阶梯，是你自己以前决定的一个许诺，你必须完成，就是这样。当时我有很多想法都不敢做，也是有这个原因，我不确定我是否有充裕的精力和时间把它做完。
苌苌：你画的《塔罗》，大阿卡那牌的22张，荣格说它几乎包含了人类所有的类型和境遇以及行为潜意识，但你说这代表你的世界观，这怎么解释呢？
熊宇：是这样。我是在这个人类共性的框架下，做出我自己的解释，他和我的生活感受有关，你对形象的构造，会呈现你对这件事理解的一个个人的面貌。比如“恶魔”，我第一次画的时候，他是把“恶魔”面具拿在手中的，他把面具带上，才会是恶魔。也就是我觉得人心都还是有点善意的，但隔年再画的时候，他对手中的面具是有些操纵的，而且调子也画的更加素，可能我当时的看法更沉重一些。所有牌面都要这样些微的变化和强调，表达我对世界的一个观点。
苌苌：这些塔罗绘画你是一幅挨一幅连在一起展出的，对空间也做了设计，想法是怎么来的？
熊宇：画塔罗，我被憋了很久，然后一下子放开了。今年二月在我们美术馆做那个黑白的贴墙，就是画完了以后，觉得很放松，可以去实践我的试验了。比如我看塔罗牌，我是觉得它有一种空间的氛围，你又想要画面上有很古典，很吸引人的感觉，其实二者兼得是有点困难的。那我后来想开了，从塔罗的布展开始，我开始尝试做一些空间延展的创作，让观众一下进入一个很奇异的空间。我可以用贴墙的的方式来做，用投影的方式来做，我不一定要全部通过绘画获得，那么反过来，在画面上，我就可以把一些细腻的情绪表达的更充分。这个时候，我不会在意这张画是大还是小，我可能画一幅很小的画，但把一个氛围画清楚。我当时一共做了四个空间，每个空间都有不同的感受。这也是我的一种实验创作方式，我并不认为这个东西是最准确的，但至少是一种新的探索。
苌苌：如果出售的话，你想要整体卖还是？
熊宇：对啊，塔罗出售的话应该是一个整体，因为我觉得它整个是一件作品。很多观众他不会这么去看，他就觉得一张就是一件。
苌苌：每次展览，好像都是你一段时期的总结，又是一个新的起点，那么《塔罗》之后到准备这次个展之间，发生了怎样的变化呢？
熊宇：之后，我就想关注一些很具体的人和事物。因为从05年开始，我开始担任四川大学美术馆的馆长，当你处于这样的身份后就有了一种责任。前面谈的都是比较令人愉悦的，世界观啊，实验啊，我从最早创作的时候，是比较喜欢那种观念的东西。但这次展览“Angel in City”，是我有了社会身份后的感受。画中的每个人物有了身份，比如工匠、水员，我喜欢那种健康的，有生命力的主体，所以选择的都是体力劳动者。
苌苌：但这些人，比如工匠，他们身后有翅膀，但都变得很弱，看起来不足以支撑他飞起来了，为什么这样处理？
熊宇：翅膀告诉大家他是一个天使，但是他跟我以前的画面相比，变得很弱了。他虽然在做了这个工作，他可能还有别的想法，就这样的一种感觉。每个人都会有理想的东西，而在生活中有很多时候是会放弃理想的，即使是天使有时也许还是会放弃，不过我觉得那些现实身份的人还是会有理想的翅膀，有些东西是不会放弃的。

70后的不置可否
熊宇：这张其实，怎么说呢？我画的是《云下的世界》，然后这些人看起来像……
苌苌：成都的特警？
熊宇：成都的特警没有这么酷。
苌苌：我昨天刚看了一个杂志写他们。
熊宇：成都特警没有那么酷，穿的这么好。
苌苌：真有的，成都的特警，你可能没有在街上见过，但他们的装备进步神速超出我们的想象。
熊宇：有这么酷吗？
苌苌：他们戴的帽子和你画的几乎一模一样，也有女的。
熊宇：没见过。其实我画的还不是完全按照你说的警察的来画的，我想让他的服饰说明弱一些，至多可以说他们是像警察的一些人。
苌苌：在你这张画里，他们围着中间这个像天使一样的人，天使看上去很弱势？
熊宇：对。你可以说这些人在保护他，也可以说这些人想抓住他。
苌苌：我觉得很多年轻艺术家总喜欢一种模棱两可的表达，表达的太暧昧，这种不置可否的态度，有时令人觉得很不过瘾。而且你不能埋怨观众对你有这种期待，因为你这次画的不是出世，而是入世，甚至会让人觉得创作者正在一个左右无措的状态。
熊宇：70后的整个社会生活是一个比较平的状态，我现在的画面还比以前清晰了呢。因为开始有了职业，介入一些事情，所以态度会比以前明显很多。我毕业的时候，老师也跟我说，应该画的更狠一点，或者是应该画的更有效果，但就是不愿意画，因为那时你会觉得，你这么画是假的。
苌苌：其实我这么问你的时候，我对自己的问题也是怀疑的，或者说，艺术不应该执着于有或非有的状态。
熊宇：瞧，你自己也是模棱两可的。
苌苌：70后真是无可救药了。
熊宇：我不这么想。人是慢慢变化的，比如说你现在有小孩了，你有亲人去世，或者说你又在社会上担任了什么职务，慢慢的你的态度会越来越明显。当你40岁的时候，整个就会有很多的东西出来。这是我以前看老栗的《重要的不是艺术》那本书感受到的。他前面的文章写的很学术，还有国画、笔墨的内容，那个时候你会发现他态度不明显，一直在讨论技术层面的问题。他真正表明态度是在《重要的不是艺术》那篇文章。这个东西是不是艺术不重要，重要的是思想的解放，它是随着时间的推移发生的。他前面有可能有十多年的时间都在积淀，所以我当时就想创作也是这样，你可能按照你自己的兴趣，一个主题，一个主题的做，有可能不是你最想说的，但是当你人生的阅历达到一定的程度的时候，某一天你可能做一个很小的展览，而别人都觉得你把所有话都说清楚了。
苌苌：你不同主题的背后有没有一个衔接点？
熊宇：当然，不同主题的背后更多的是对人的状态的关注。最早展览《安静的流逝》是比较直接的，表达一种个人的状态，感觉的东西很多，不过并不确定。《塔罗》的时候，有一定的态度了，但也是一个概念很大很宽泛的创作。这次展览就更明确了一点儿，就是人承担了一种社会责任后的感觉。
苌苌：你刚才说，《塔罗》之后，你有了很多很多方向，都是怎样的呢？
熊宇：刚才说做空间的延展是我的一个探索。它给人感觉怎么样不是我最想表达的问题。我前一段时间，一直在想这个主题，就是像大炼钢铁那种感觉。对我来说，大炼钢铁非常理想主义化，虽然大家可能觉得很失败或者怎么样。我想重新通过贴墙这种方式来认识这个问题，表达我眼里的一个理想主义，其实我想用整个空间来完成那种感觉。我最近想做一个巨大的投影，刚刚把技术层面的问题解决掉，但是租机器一天要10万，更麻烦的是在城市做还要申报。我还做了一个头盔的作品，就是电焊工的面具，其实很多面具是没有保护性的。他天天看那个电焊，表面上感觉他是没事，把光给遮住了，但其实是对视线是有影响的。这种物品有又保护又伤害的两面性。我现在还在想做物品中的人的灵魂，比如这个杯子你每天都用，用了十年，你会觉得这个杯子是很重要的一个器物，上面有你的气息，我试图把这种感觉表现出来。但你不可能把画像画上面，现在还处于迷盲阶段，不知道怎么具体去做。
身为美术馆馆长

身为美术馆馆长
苌苌：做美术馆馆长给了你什么样的体会？
熊宇：现在很多媒体关注美术馆的发展，这是好事。我们在成都做美术馆其实做的很艰难。都是志愿者，没有工资，我和我手下的学生全是志愿者，大家全都凭着一股热情在做事，缺乏经济的支持。中国的美术馆往往是这样，他觉得修好这个空间以后，事儿就完了。他不会想后续的事情，叫你去管，然后你跟他要钱，他觉得，这怎么还要花钱啊。
苌苌：想过不做美术馆馆长吗？
熊宇：有的时候得到一个责任，是被裹挟进去的。我最早想的是培养学生的能力，而且可以有个更好的学术环境。你这么想很简单，但后来发现要往里面投入更多的东西。一开始只有我和两个学生志愿者，现在很多学生加入进来，它变得越来越大。而且每个人看到你，就觉得你是他们的核心。你如果有一天情绪很低落，他们也会觉得不知道该怎么办。而且学生又很有激情，他们会长大，长大以后，会想做更多有意思的事，这个责任心会更多，就是一个循环。所以我现在就想，如果你有好想法，但没准备好去扛下来，你就不要告诉别人。只要告诉别人，你就得实践自己的话，就变成身不由己了。
苌苌：然后你还担任油画系讲师？
熊宇：相对来说现在我在教学上花的精力要少一点，美术馆那边要重一点，我更看重用美术馆来锻炼学生。美术馆的活动可以辐射到更多的人，比如我们美术馆现在志愿者都是来自不同专业的，有的甚至不是学艺术的。
苌苌：这么多身份，忙的过来吗？
熊宇：我现在觉得执行很重要。特别是一个艺术家具有综合性身份的时候，执行能力特别重要。我的学生有的跟了我几年，从本科到研究生，很多已经走上正轨。比如我的学生有的能独立的执行展览，现在基本上一般的展览我不用管，直接告诉他，你处理这个事情，他就全权搞定。我今年虽然做了很多作品，但是实际上反而画画更纯粹，因为很多事不用你自己跑了，团队就能帮你处理很多的事，你有更多时间思考你的绘画，这也是经过好几年的磨合，才达到这样的效果。

Xiong Yu will hold a solo Exhibition “Angel in City” in PIFO New Art Gallery on December 18th, 2009. In this exhibition, he will display his paintings with 18 pieces since last year. From his first solo exhibition “Running on Tranquilly” in the year of 2006 to the “Tarot” in the year of 2008, Xiong Yu has all treated each solo exhibition as a way of putting his inner world in order. Xiong Yu, born in 1975, becomes more and more mature gradually in the growing period of spirit. The themes of the three solo exhibitions are closely linked with his realization towards life and art. The big eyes, whether we like or not, people will remember the creator for that. We can not deny that the big eyes become the symbol of his works, but his works accepted by market doesn't mean his thinking become easy from now on. Looking in a comprehensive way, Xiong Yu’s exploration of Painting is a process of relieving the burden of his mind, from rough to delicate, complicated to simple, drifting to sinking. What kind of life made his paintings change like that? One morning in the early winter, he talked about his sensitive logic of his paintings as well as his art influenced by different social experiences in 798’s Coffee.

Article/ Chang Chang, Picture Supplying: PIFO New Art Gallery
Chang Chang = Chang   Xiong Yu = Xiong

About Symbol

Chang: As for the big eyes, what is your initial idea?
Xiong: At that time I just want to create a pure person, neither man or woman, who could live in different situations, make a consideration quietly and enjoy his private space. I have two kinds of feeling at that time: one feeling is that I hope the person in the painting could have a vital strength. I like to exaggerate person’s hand and joint like now. Besides, I like eye communication, so I paint big eyes just like a gaze. The eye is blue, because I feel blue is a clear color and I hope his eye could bring us a feeling of clear. Have you seen Picasso’s “Women Running on the Beach”?

Chang: Yes, I am so surprised about that painting. Because I thought it was a big painting when I saw it in the painting album at the first time. But it is too small with width about 30 cm when I saw the original one in Picasso Art Museum.
Xiong: I also thought it was a big painting at one time. If he painted the body into a common shape, it would not give us a feeling like this kind completely. He exaggerated the shape so that the vitality and the gladness of life could flow out of the painting, and then you felt the small canvas could not contain the painting. However, I want to say why the painting appears this kind of feeling just because he exaggerated what he interested.   

Chang: Finally, you decided the pattern of the eyes in your painting-Long Eyelash. I feel there is some flavor of cosmetics in your earlier paintings, and I feel better about this time. What do you think?
Xiong: A flavor of cosmetics? I do not have this kind of feeling. I think the eye would become more limpid. Like what I have said just now, the character with uncertain gender has vitality, limpid eyes for communication and stays in a quiet place. Keeping in original is not my main motivation absolutely, so his eyes change gradually not always have long eyelash. I pay much more attention to the feeling of the whole painting. Sometimes I would add it at last, including the gloom in an eye you just mentioned. I would not seek for that purposely, and I have this feeling all round in my painting days, maybe there is something relates the environment here. 

Tarot Times

Chang: Your second solo exhibition is about Tarot Cards, what is your inspiration from Tarot?
Xiong: At first, everyone tells me that using Tarot Cards to make fortune-telling is so accurate. One friend of mine from Shanghai is a painter of two-dimensional cartoons, and he is very tired for painting dozens of sheets or hundreds of sheets one day. He likes it very much. He gives a fortune-telling about marriage and social jobs. It is very accurate, so I feel that is very mysterious. He give me to see an authentic series, I feel it is a complete system of world view, so I want to draw it out. I began to paint in 2005, but interrupted after paining more than ten pieces.

Chang: What happened in this process?
Xiong: It was a big lesson for me. Sometimes, it would not be a good thing if you influenced by the surroundings when you were creating. After I painted more than ten pieces, I forgot what I had to do in Beijing. And then my mind changed after I came back. I felt something wrong with that work when look back, which was not the work what I wanted.

Chang: What happened?
Xiong: Nothing happened. That is to say, you would find the feel conveyed by the work is not the one you want at the beginning, you would think it is too simple, superficial and flowery, and then you would turn over it and do it again. Meanwhile, you would be so tired for the heavily workload. When I painted Tarot again, I learnt the lesson before. In this period, an exhibition in Korea opened and invited me to come, I didn’t go. And then, China Blue Gallery contacted a solo exhibition in Shanghai Art Museum, I gave up again. I told them I hadn’t finished my works, and others thought it was so pity for giving up this opportunity. I think different people have different perspectives. There is a state of continuance when you are creating, that is the reason why I told you. It would be interrupted when you do something in the half way. Chen Conglin told me that he also has this experience. When he was in Germany, he painted the crowd of funeral and wedding, it is a big painting. In this period, Kassel Documentation Exhibition invited him to take part in, but he refused. He painted for several years for that painting. Afterwards, I asked him why he paint a painting in several years. He told me his mind changed and he depended on his insistence to finish that painting. I think painting just likes that, you would be the genius at the beginning and the end, but it is persistence in the painting process. You have painted it in the basic level for a long time, such as painting pigment for one time or two times, but that was not what you wanted at that time. You needed to adjust it for a long time at last. Once you stopped in a half way, the producing process would stay here without your own inspiration and gift at all. Meanwhile, you would find there is neither rhyme nor reason, just wasting your time. Because your mind was changed, a young man could be influenced by the new things every day, maybe your mind would be changed a lot one year later, but your mind would not be changed when you are doing that. You should think no matter how the outcome would be, people support or not, you must put much of your energy into it. It is a part of ladder on your life road or a commitment decided before, you must finish it, that’s it. That is the reason why I dared not to do at that time, and I was not sure whether I had sufficient energy and time to finish it or not. 

Chang: Your painting, "Tarot", big arcana of 22 pieces, Jung said that it contained almost all of the types and the human situations as well as the behavior of the sub-consciousness, but you said it represents your view of the world, how can you explain that?
Xiong: That is the case. I make my own interpretation in the framework of this human commonness, it related with my living experience, and your construction of image would show a personal appearance of your understanding of this matter. Such as "Devil", when I paint it at my first time, the devil held its mask in his hand, after he put on the mask, he would be the devil. That is to say, I think people always have a little bit of goodwill. However, in the following year, I think he has some manipulation of the mask in his hand when I re-painted, maybe my view at that time was a little bit heavy, so I painted the hue more plainly. All the cards must have a bit change and stress to express my view of the world.

Chang: These “Tarot” paintings are connected one by one to exhibit and the space is also designed. Where is your idea from?
Xiong: As foe painting Tarot, I was hold back for a long time, and then let go suddenly. I made the black and white wall in our art Museum in February this year, I felt so relax after finishing, and then I went to do my experimentation. For instance, I think it has a space atmosphere when I see the Tarot cards. You want it to be classical and attractive; in fact, it has a little bit difficult if you want both of them. And then I let this kind of idea go. I try to do some creation for extending the space and let the audience go to a strange space when I begin to exhibit the Tarot. I could use a way of wall or projection to do that, not necessarily to get it through painting, contrarily, I could express the emotion more delicate in the painting. At that time, I didn’t care the painting was big or small. Maybe I would paint a small painting to show a clear atmosphere. I made four spaces at that time, each space had different feeling. It is a way of my experimental creation and I do not think it is accurate but a new exploration at least.

Chang:  Do you want to sell them in a whole or?
Xiong: Yes, it is must be a whole to sell Tarot. Because I think it is a whole work. Most audience will not see it like that, they think one work is one piece.

Chang: Each exhibition just likes your summarization in one period and is also a new start point of you. Is there any change in the preparing process of this exhibition after “Tarot”?
Xiong: Afterward, I want to pay attention to some concrete people and things. Because I begin to have the occupation of curator of the Art Museum of Sichuan University since 2005, you will have a kind of responsibility when you have this status. I think the things I talked about in the front are very pleasant such as world view and experimentation. I liked that kind of conceptions better when I created in my early times. However, this exhibition “Angel in City” exhibits my feelings after I have social identity. Every character in the painting has identity, such as craftsman or water staff. I like the kind of healthy, viable subject, so I choose manual workers.

Chang: But these people, such as craftsmen with wings on their backs look so weak and hard to fly, why do you do like that?
Xiong: Wings indicate his angel identity. But he gets weak compares with my early paintings. Even though he does this job, he may have some other ideas. That is the feeling I want to express. Everyone has his own ideality, but one will give up his ideality sometimes in his real life, even if an angel. But I think people with real identities would have their ideal wings, they would not give up certain things sometimes.

Uncertainty of after-70s

Xiong: As for this painting, how to say? This is “World beneath Clouds”, and they look like……
Chang: The Special Policemen of Chengdu?
Xiong: The Special Policemen of Chengdu are not so cool.
Chang: Yesterday I saw a magazine wrote about them.
Xiong: The Special Policemen of Chengdu are not so cool, and they do not wear so well.
Chang: It is real. Maybe you didn’t see the Special Policeman of Chengdu on the street. However, the rapid development of their advanced equipment is beyond our imagination.
Xiong: So cool?
Chang: The hats they wear are the same as your painting, including women’s.
Xiong: I didn’t see. Actually, what I paint is not according to the policeman as you said. I just want their apparel give us less hint, even if we can say they like policeman.
Chang: In this painting, they are around a person who looks like an angel in the middle. The angel seems too weak.
Xiong: Yes. You can say these people want to protect him or catch him.
Chang: I feel many young artists always like to make amphibolies expressions, and the expression is too amphibolies. This attitude doesn’t make me enjoyable sometimes. Furthermore, you should not complain that the audience has such expectation of you. Because you are painting a devoting into social world, not a getting out, even more, this will lead people to think the painter are in a state out of handling. 
Xiong: The whole lifestyle is flat for after-70s and I think my painting is clearer than before. Because I think my attitude becomes clearer after having a profession. My teacher told me that I should let my paintings become more expressive and effective or make the paintings have more effect. But I didn’t like to paint in this way at that time. Because you would feel the paintings are fake if you paint in this way.
Chang: As a matter of fact, I doubt my question when I ask you, or I can say, art should not cling to the state of possess or not.
Xiong: Look, you are also amphibolies.
Chang: People after 1970 are incurable.
Xiong: I don’t think so. People change gradually. For example, if you have kids or your relative dies or you have an occupation in the society, your attitude will change gradually. You will learn more from the society when you are forty years old. It is my feeling from the book “The Important Thing is not Art” of Lao Li. He wrote the anterior articles so academic, including the contents of traditional Chinese painting and ink. You will find his attitude is not so obvious at that time and he talked about the problems of techniques all the times. He indicated his attitude in the article of “The Important Thing is not Art”. Whether it is an art or not is not important, the important thing is the emancipation of mind, and it happens with the passage of time. It may accumulate for over ten years, which was the reason I wanted to create at that time. Maybe you will accord with your own interest to do it theme by theme, but it may not be what you want to say. However, when you have much more experience in some degree and you make a small exhibition, you will feel you are saying all the words clearly.
Chang: Is there any joint behind different themes?
Xiong: Of course, I pay much attention to the states of people behind different themes. My first solo exhibition “Running on Tranquilly” is much more direct. I have much feeling to express one’s state, but I am not sure. I have certain attitude at the period of “Tarot”, but it is also an extensive creation with big conception. This exhibition is clearer, a feeling after people afford a responsibility of society.
Chang: You just said you had many directions after “Tarot”, what were they?
Xiong: I have just said the extension of space was an exploration of mine. I do not want to express what kind of feeling it is. I have been thinking about this theme a period ago, just liking a feeling of “all-forging-steel”. For myself, I think “all-forging-steel” is idealism despite someone would think it is a failure. I want to understand this problem through painting wall again to express the idealism in my eyes, actually, I want to use the whole space to finish this feeling. Recently, I want to make a huge projection and I just solve all the problems in technique. However, the hired machine will cost 100,000RMB one day and I need to apply for that in the city. I also made a work of helmet which is a mask of welder. As a matter of fact, many masks are not protective. He watches the electronic welding everyday. It seems that he is well apparently because mask prevents the light, but actually it is bad for his vision. It has two sides, protective and hurtful. Now I also want to make the soul of human in goods. For example, you use this cup everyday, and you will find it is an important thing for you after using for ten years. Because there is your flavor on it, and I try to express this feeling. But it is impossible for you to paint on it. Now I am so puzzled that I do not know how to do concretely.   

As the Curator of Art Museum

Chang: Do you have any experience as a curator of Art Museum?
Xiong: Now many Medias pay attention the development of Art Museum, which is a good thing. I think the development of Art Museum is difficult for us in Chengdu. All of the staffs here are volunteers without salary, including my students and me. All of us are working depending on our passion and lacking of economic support. The Art museums in China always like that, he thinks it’s over after finishing the space. And he will not think about the following things, just let you to take over it and you ask him for money, and then he feels why you ask for more money.
Chang: Have you ever thought of abdicate the curator of Art Museum?
Xiong: Sometimes it would be a responsibility, you would be wrapped in. At the beginning, I just wanted to cultivate students’ ability and had a better academia. I would be simple if you thought in this way, but I found I should put more things into that afterward. At first, there are only three people, two volunteers of student and I, and then so many students took part in, now it become bigger and bigger. When they see you, they believe you are the core of them. If your emotion turndown one day, they wouldn’t know how to do. Students are full of passion, they will grow up and have many things to do, and then they will have many responsibilities. It is a circulation. Therefore, I think it’s better for you not to share your idea with others if you do not prepare well. If you tell someone, you would need to fulfill your word and then become involuntarily.  
Chang: And then as a lecturer in the department of oil painting?
Xiong: Comparatively, I put less energy in teaching, more in the Art Museum. I pay much more attention to the training in the Art Museum. The activities of Art Museum can influence more people. For example, now the volunteers of our Art Museum are from different specialties, some of them don’t learn art.
Chang: Do you feel busy with so many identities?
Xiong: Now I feel implementation is very important. Especially as an artist with a comprehensive identity, implementation becomes more important. Many of my students, who stay with me for several years from undergraduate to graduate, are on the right path. For example, some of students could make an exhibition independently. Now I do nothing in the exhibition, just tell him to deal with it and he can finish it. Although I paint many works this year, actually the paintings become more pure. Because I do not have to do many things, the team will help you to do that, and you have much more time to think of your paintings. That is the effect by grinding for several years.